[00:00:00] Pol Cousineau: It’s interesting
[00:00:00] ’cause I’ve had
[00:00:01] people ask me too,
[00:00:01] “Hey, what do we do if you die?”
[00:00:03] And then I’m like,
[00:00:04] “Okay, don’t worry,
[00:00:05] I’m a planner.
[00:00:06] Here’s what’s gonna happen
[00:00:07] if I die.”
[00:00:07] Lara Neiberding: As I reflect,
[00:00:09] I would say
[00:00:10] I took to this career
[00:00:12] like a duck takes to water
[00:00:14] because I would call myself
[00:00:16] reserved, quiet, kind of shy.
[00:00:20] Pol Cousineau: But what happens
[00:00:20] if someone in your team
[00:00:21] changes, right?
[00:00:22] Like, if someone leaves,
[00:00:23] someone comes,
[00:00:24] Lara Neiberding: The more challenging
[00:00:25] personalities to work with
[00:00:27] are the ones
[00:00:28] who maybe are less tech-savvy,
[00:00:31] and so technical glitches
[00:00:34] are catastrophic.
[00:00:36]
[00:00:43] Pol Cousineau: Welcome to Mind of All Trades, the podcast where edupreneurs turn knowledge into impact. I’m your host, Pol Cousineau, and together we explore the craft and commerce of educational businesses, we look at the strategy, we look at the systems, and we look at the real implementation work that has to happen behind the scenes.
[00:01:03] Before we dive in, make sure you subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes. We’ll be sharing practical guides, conversations, and examples for edupreneurs who are building real momentum in their business, and for coaches, course creators, podcasters, and membership site owners who need help with the tech behind the business.
[00:01:23] Check out The Digital Navigator. The Digital Navigator helps with fully managed websites, funnels, analytics, automations, and ongoing tech support. So instead of having a bunch of disconnected tools, your systems can work together, and you can spend more of your time focused on the business, the offer, and the people you serve.
[00:01:44] You can learn more at thedigitalnavigator.com. Now let’s jump into today’s episode.
[00:01:50] and today’s guest is Lara Nieberding. Lara, you might have to help me a little bit with the pronunciation. H- for Nie- uh, please help me.
[00:02:05] Lara Neiberding: Thank you for having me, Pol. It’s Lara Nieberding
[00:02:09] Pol Cousineau: Okay, I was doing pretty good. So
[00:02:11] Lara Neiberding: Yes, very good
[00:02:12] Pol Cousineau: Lara Nieberding, known online as The Purple Lara, is a certified online business manager who has worked entirely virtually since 2007. She has run six-figure coaching and consulting businesses in fields as different as financial advising and holistic healing. She has quite a wealth and breadth of expertise for us today.
[00:02:36] She earned her OBM certification in June 2011 after training with Tina Forsythe, joined the International Virtual Assistance Association in 2007, and joined the International Association of Online Business Managers in 2011. You can see a little bit the career progression there. She sums up her role in one line, “Making sure the right things get done in the right way at the right time by the right people.”
[00:03:05] Sounds pretty awesome to me. Her credo is, “Proper planning prevents poor performance,” and she calls herself a Jane of all trades. Her start was unusual. In 2006, she was helping entrepreneurs set up businesses online when someone called her a virtual assistant, a term she had never heard, and searching it introduced her to the profession she has stayed in ever since.
[00:03:31] And I have to say, that term was not quite as common as it is today, way back in 2006. Encore Online Business Management is Lara Nieberding’s solo online business management practice, running virtually since 2007. She works as the operator inside other people’s businesses, owning, planning, systems, project management, and team management so the founder can stay on vision, content, and delivery.
[00:04:02] Obviously, you can already tell that she is the implementer. Her clients today are business, marketing, and life coaches selling online courses and programs. In earlier years, they were largely virtual assistants and multi-VA agency owners, and she has also subcontracted into other multi-VA teams. The practice is deliberately small.
[00:04:27] She keeps a limited client docket. I can tell that work-life balance is very important for Lara. I’m so happy to have you on the show.
[00:04:37] Lara Neiberding: Thank you, Pol. I appreciate the introduction. It’s always great to spend time with you.
[00:04:43] Pol Cousineau: Yes, we’ve actually known each other for quite a long time, and we’ve worked on multiple clients’ accounts together, uh, as well. And one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on the show is because you’ve done so much work on the implementer side, and you’ve also done work, as I shared in my intro, as a virtual assistant, but as well as an online business manager, and, uh, it’s been quite the career trajectory.
[00:05:10] And what would be interesting for our audience is to go way back to 2006, where you were helping entrepreneurs set up their businesses, and then someone started calling you a virtual assistant. Can you share a little bit about that experience?
[00:05:25] Lara Neiberding: Yes. So there were online communities back in 2006, and the trend was to set up, um, an entrepreneurial pursuit from people who were working full-time. So I was in an online community, and these were p- people that worked full-time in, uh, corporate bus- uh, corporations, and they were setting up entrepreneurial pursuits as a side hustle. And so I started in these online communities saying, “Hey, while you’re at work, I could be doing these marketing activities for you. I could be setting up these products for you or making adjustments to your website.” And in one of those communities, that’s where somebody said, “Oh, you’re a virtual assistant.” And I went to Google, and I was like, “Virtual assistant? I, I’ve never heard of that.” And then my world just opened up, and I was like, “Oh, I could actually work with entrepreneurs who have a business full-time and aren’t juggling two things at once.” And so I found the Virtual Assistance, uh, Association, and then that’s how I really planted my feet and grew from there.
[00:06:56] Pol Cousineau: Hmm. And were you working with these entrepreneurs or corporate, right, corporate entrepreneurs, I guess, in person at the time, and then you moved online? Or did you- it already started online?
[00:07:08] Lara Neiberding: It was o– these were online communities. So at the moment, I don’t think I’ve ever met a client I’ve worked with. Now, s- sometimes I was part of a team a- and I would go to the International Virtual Assistants Association convention, and so I would meet those people who I did work for. So they were my clients, but they weren’t the entrepreneur, When I was a member of the International Virtual Assistants Association, I was a board member. I was also a summit committee member, uh, then became summit co-chair. So every year we would go to a convention, and so I would meet the business owners of the teams that I worked with, and they… I never met the clients that we supported.
[00:08:02] So in all of my years, I have never l- actually in person met somebody that was my client.
[00:08:09] Pol Cousineau: Wow. That, that sounds kind of crazy, although on the other hand, I’ve rarely met clients in person. There are several I have met in the context of, like, we were hosting a retreat that was unrelated to the business activities, or they were traveling in Costa Rica and they’re like, “Hey, we’re gonna be coming by.”
[00:08:29] So of course, right, we would meet up with them. But similar to you, there’s been hundreds of clients and, and never have interacted i- in that way. So, uh, what has been some of the challenges you’ve found in working online, right? Because the relationship is quite different than a fully in-person experience.
[00:08:53] Lara Neiberding: As I reflect, I would say I took to this career like a duck takes to water because I would call myself reserved, quiet, kind of shy. So in a corporate setting, I’m not really like a cutthroat, go after, competitive kind of person. So being online has just suited my personality because the boundaries are preset. So we show up to work, we do the work, and there’s kind of no nothing else. Now, I have shared personal experiences with clients. There’s this level of friendship that you develop just like you would around a water cooler. There’s a certain rapport that gets built. Uh, so for me and my personality, the challenge might be a time zone, like making sure work is done so that the client has it done on their time zone. But as I worked and really defined who I liked working with, I started picking clients that were in my time zone so that the communication would occur at a little less asynchronously.
[00:10:11] Um, so, you know, if you’re a real outgoing person who needs physical boundaries, you have to go to the building, go to your desk, and have your routine of the day start like that, working online might not be the best for you. Uh, somebody who’s very social and really, uh, pulls energy from those around them, so they like being in a physical space, they might not like the online working environment as much. But somebody like me who can really focus and self-manage my time, meet my goals independently, it’s perfect. I love it.
[00:10:55] Pol Cousineau: Yeah, and it makes sense because the visionary normally has more of that public presence, and typically, not always, but that implementer role is more behind the scenes, not in the big headlines, uh, you know, and, and you know that the work is being done because things are not falling apart. That’s how you know the success of that.
[00:11:15] And then you were mentioning about feeding… Like, if you need other people around you, generally this is a much more solo experience, although I know some people can work out of a cafe or also there’s, uh, people in the Philippines that do this type of work, and I’ve seen arrangements where they collectively rent a house and then everyone goes and works in that house, and it’s got a generator, and they got their little kitchen and things like that.
[00:11:41] So then they made that environment to get that social space. But unless someone willingly architects that, that’s not going to happen. It’s going to be more of a solo experience. But there is something that you mentioned around boundaries, because I’ve noticed that not all implementers have those boundaries, and it can leak through all areas like evening, mornings, weekends, vacations, all of those things.
[00:12:08] And this is particularly a challenge now as the methods of communication and the speed increases, the expectations can be very high or they can be unset. So how have you been able to manage those boundaries, and how does that play into communication?
[00:12:24] Lara Neiberding: I set those boundaries from the beginning, and then I allow for– as I get to know the person I’m working with, I allow for a little bit of that flex over. So if there’s a big project, a s- a big launch of a product or a program, and my time is needed a little bit over my boundary time, then I’ll allow for that.
[00:12:50] But in general, on day one, I will be very clear that I live on the Eastern Time Zone, that I work Monday through Friday from 9:00 AM to 3:00 PM, and that anything that happens outside of those hours I’ll get to first thing the next morning, and anything that happens over the weekend, in general, can wait until Monday. Now, I say that because that’s my personal preference, but there are plenty of entrepreneurs that wanna work with an operator that doesn’t have those boundaries, but has different boundaries, and I’ve seen those working relationships be very successful as well. So I have lined up– aligned with clients that are either in the same boundaries I am, they only wanna work Monday through Friday, 9:00 to 3:00 and not work weekends, or they’re gonna work Friday through Monday and they know that I’ll get to things, any ideas or questions that they have or work that they’ve presented will– they’ll send it to me over the weekend and then know I’m gonna get it done during the week.
[00:14:00] So there’s a little bit of mutual respect is what you wanna establish as an operator with a business owner is, uh, just recognizing your work styles and then being able to accommodate. And along with that, I think it’s okay if you are, uh, as an operator are working with a founder, and after two weeks you know it’s not gonna work, give them two weeks to 30-day notice and say, “Hey, we tried this out, but we’re just not aligned in our work styles, and it would be better to, uh, separate amicably,” and then find the right founder/operator, uh, pairing.
[00:14:44] So that’s just part of the work relationship anyway, so I align myself with clients that appreciate, “Okay, here’s how we work together.”
[00:14:58] Pol Cousineau: I found that the style of the entrepreneur, the founder, will determine if it’s gonna be a fit or not. And what I mean is I’m a planner, so my operator needs to be a planner, not a rush last-minute thing. Now, on the other hand, there are plenty of founders and operators that thrive in the rush last-minute type energy.
[00:15:22] And what I found is that, uh, one is I can’t work with that last-minute rush energy, and this should be an exception, right? That’s because planning failed that we’re in that situation, or there’s an opportunity that came up and we willingly made that choice and we said, “Okay, we’re gonna be fighting fires,” or, ” It’s gonna be all hands on deck for the next two week, but we’re making this conscious decision.”
[00:15:46] And then if I make that decision, I consult with my operator. I can’t just dump that on that person as a nice gift, right? And the planning aspect for me is, is really, really critical. What’s your thoughts around planning, how it relates to the running of these types of educational businesses or online work?
[00:16:10] Lara Neiberding: So I worked with a client and she, um, was a healer. Her clients were massage therapists or practitioners, and she was teaching them how to use their skills. They, they might have gone to massage school and gotten their certificate, or they might have done their healing work, but nobody really taught them how to market their business, how to attract their clients. So she was their mentor teacher, and she offered online programs. Everything was online. Like, she didn’t do in-person classes or retreats at that time. And so I was the planner and I was the one that said, “Okay, it’s August 1st.” Like, we would be in May 31st, June 1st, and I would be like, “Okay, this has to be done by August 1st.”
[00:17:10] She was the marketer, so she would write all of the emails and she would give us content for the website. And okay, so I’m like a three-month out, like, “Okay, here are all the deadlines for all the things that we need, the products, the pricing,” blah, blah, you know, all of the things. And I would get super excited and I’d have everything ready to go.
[00:17:30] So after we had been working for a while, I realized that she– I’d given her these great deadlines with plenty of time to prepare the marketing, but I wouldn’t get the marketing until the week of or the week before the marketing needed to happen, which would sometimes make me a little nervous, like, “Can we as a team get this email set up in time?”
[00:17:55] And, and you know, we had a conversation, and again, this is sort of about boundaries and challenges and learning how to work together. But she just told me, she’s like, she needs me to do the planning, to map everything out, because those are details she doesn’t wanna focus on. But her work style is, and this was a lifelong work style, u-unless she’s working up against the due date, she’s not…
[00:18:22] She just can’t bring herself to deliver whatever it is we need. So I just learned how, okay, I’m not gonna get anxious because she’s giving us things the week of or the week before. I know it’s gonna happen, so that’s a, a way of planning. I know it’s gonna happen. I don’t need to panic over it. And so we were able to really complement each other.
[00:18:49] So yes, I have had to work with clients that want to do things very last minute, and then I’ve also worked with clients who want everything planned out, which, uh, the variety is nice.
[00:19:03] Pol Cousineau: I’m wondering if in that previous situation you made the deadlines intentionally more aggressive for her
[00:19:10] Lara Neiberding: Yes, of course. So if we were launching the program on August 1st, then the materials were due the week before. No, you know, I’d say to her, “Look, we have to have it,” you know, let’s say, yeah, the week before. So I always gave it seven days, and then sometimes she knew I was doing that, and other times she’d be like, “Oh, yes, I’ve gotta get this done.” I tried to get her to focus on what was next so that that week early deadline seemed a little bit more imminent for her.
[00:19:41] Pol Cousineau: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And then if you’re listening to this and you’re the visionary or founder, and maybe you are the one that is waiting at the last minute, something that is important to acknowledge is that one is, okay, that’s your style, right? But two is for your business, it likely introduces more risk.
[00:20:01] And the reason for that is there’s review steps that you may not even be aware that someone like your online business manager, your VAs, or someone else in your team are doing, and then these review steps is meant to defend the goal, right? It’s like your goalie. Well, sometimes they’re gonna catch things, so then there needs to be enough time to apply the catch, right?
[00:20:25] And to do the repair. So it’s something for you to keep in mind where, hey, if you submit it two days before the deadline and it goes to the public, you have to be willing to accept that the quality may not be 100% because your team is working on that crunch, and then these review and quality processes may not have sufficient time to be, to be run.
[00:20:49] So I think that is important. And then the other one is if you are the operator, bringing awareness to the founder of, “Hey, wait, I need X amount of time to do the review, meet with the team, take corrective measures, do the testing,” et cetera. So the job isn’t just done the first pass of any type of deliverable.
[00:21:11] How do you handle that quality assurance? Doesn’t have to be in a rush, Lara, right? It could be in other type of context, but have you found something similar around reviews or how do you, how do you ensure that by the end, right, the finished product is good, meets expectations, and really is amazing?
[00:21:30] Lara Neiberding: When a founder understands that they are dropping something last minute, the more mature and established ones accept the level of review that can be done last minute. So I never send something out that I haven’t reviewed, but sometimes that review will be a little bit quicker and won’t be as thorough, but it’s never just sent without review.
[00:22:00] So there’s always one level of quality assurance that’s accomplished. Uh, but Recently worked with a client who just said, ” You know, we’re in the middle of a launch. I’m gonna make decisions on the fly. Make it happen.” And so we did. And where the preparation as an operator comes in is all of the foundations were set ahead of time because we knew that changes would happen last minute, so we had protocols ready to go for those last-minute reviews. So in an ideal world, yes, we’d have one week of review and testing prior to public launch or availability of public-facing materials. And in crunch times, sometimes you just gotta do what you can and then move forward. And that’s, again, just learning how to communicate with the founder, knowing what the boundaries are.
[00:23:06] And that’s– Some of those circumstances are where your boundaries kind of have to relax for that moment. So it’s 3:00, we need to make a change in something that’s going out at 6:00 PM. I’m not s– I’m not the type that’s just gonna close my office at 3:00 and be like, ” See ya. Sorry it wasn’t in time.” Some founders respond to that, and some are like, “No, I can’t work like that.
[00:23:33] I need somebody who’s got a little bit of flexibility.” So my proper planning prevents poor performance is building in those impromptu pivots that need to happen. So for example, we’re in the middle of a launch. Now, we’ve already set up all of the foundation pieces, so CRM is set up, audience segmentation, like all of those things are ready to go. But the one variable where we make an exception is we set a sales goal. So the client, the founder might be offering a program and they’re doing a free lead magnet, a free webinar, uh, Facebook ads. All of those things are happening at launch. Then what happens is whoa, we’re halfway through and in the current forecast we aren’t gonna make our minimum goal. So we always have a good, best, better goal. Like the best goal would be, you know, we doubled our enrollments and then a good goal is we did a little bit more than what we wanted, but there’s always a minimum, or at least in the clients I’ve worked with, if the program on- if only two people purchase a program, the founder isn’t gonna wanna deliver that to two people because of the costs, right?
[00:25:05] Of, uh,
[00:25:06] of delivering it. So That’s where the pivots occur is when you have that threshold, you aren’t meeting your minimum. Okay, now what can we do to increase either exposure or interest? Is there another bonus? Do we need to increase the deadline? Maybe reduce a replay? You know, those types of things are where my boundaries flex because I understand, hey, if the company, the business isn’t earning enough, I’m gonna be out of a job because the business can’t pay me.
[00:25:46] So it’s in my best interest to set the founder up for success, and that’s what proper planning is. Y- you get all of the foundation ahead of time, a- as much testing and review as possible so that you’re prepared for those decisions that need to be made in the moment.
[00:26:06] Pol Cousineau: And I’ve experienced those pivots. I can think of a recent one, and there was a webinar, and it was decided… Actually, it was a double pivot. So at the last minute, it was decided that there would no longer be a replay. Everyone had to be there live. Now, I was not informed of this last-minute change, and we’re handling the technology and the marketing and the ad side of things with my other business, The Digital Navigator.
[00:26:34] So then I’m looking at the sales as the week is progressing, and I say, “Well, there’s something really off. Why are the numbers so low?” So we have a team meeting, and then suddenly it comes up and they say, “Oh, well, only this many people were attending and no one else saw the webinar.” I said, “Why didn’t anyone see it?”
[00:26:54] And then it came to my attention that the replay was missing. And I said, “Well, that doesn’t make any sense,” because we had an email list of about 50,000 students, and we had give or take, let’s say, 500 people live on the webinar. So everyone else lost the context of the sales sequence and all the communication ’cause they hadn’t seen the webinar.
[00:27:15] So I said, “Well, that doesn’t make any sense to me,” because to get more attendance in the webinar, maybe that succeeded, but we’re sacrificing 50,000 people. So then we needed to do a pivot, and I said, “No, no, no. What we need to do now, let’s coordinate, send the webinar replay, give some context.” People were actually asking, and at first the customer service team was saying, “No, we’re not giving the webinar.”
[00:27:38] I said, “No, don’t do that. If they’re asking, those are your customers. They’re extremely interested by this.” So we had to do like a, like a small pause, and then we redid an extra week, and then I asked the founder to give additional videos so that we would have value, right, and give breadth to the campaign.
[00:27:55] And then the sales multiplied somewhere like two to four folds afterwards, which make a lot of sense because the email list started purchasing. So that’s like an example of a pivot, and then we had to come together with the founder, the operators in that team. We’re contractors, right? In that example. Now, in your case, uh, it might be different players when those pivot happen.
[00:28:20] So how do you manage that pivot, right? In that example, in, in… Because there’s multiple peoples involved, how do you steer that ship?
[00:28:30] Lara Neiberding: Carefully. You steer the ship carefully. Respectfully. So on the teams that I manage, I’m try to be very clear. The launch starts on this day, it ends on this day. Here are the moving pieces that that team member’s responsible for. So everybody know, again, proper planning, the foundation has been laid, everybody knows their role
[00:28:57] Pol Cousineau: And how do they know that? W- how are you sharing that? Like, is it Google Docs? Is it a project management system? It’s a Zoom call? What does that look like?
[00:29:07] Lara Neiberding: It looks like, uh, my favorite way to communicate with team, not necessarily founders, but teams, is through a project management system. ClickUp, Teamwork, Asana, everything. I map out everything. That’s where the foundation is, is, and the project management tool becomes the source of truth. Everybody can go in there and see exactly what’s going on and when. And for team members that are in my time zone or, or, um, corresponding time zones like Central, Mountain, that kind of thing, we’ll have team meetings. And we set up like a pre-launch meeting so that all roles are defined, everybody knows what they’re doing. And then if we need to make a pivot and that team member really isn’t available, I’ve built in backup. The backup might be myself. I might be hands-on to handle that pivot, because like I said, the revenue of the business is very important to me. So
[00:30:22] Pol Cousineau: in that. Now, you mentioned also time zones, so it seems like you’ve worked where sometimes some people in the team are not in the same time and there’s asynchronicity happening. Is that right?
[00:30:33] Lara Neiberding: Yes. And so we’ll use Slack, um, for conversations. I often have– Well, now with, you know, smartphones, we all can text each other. So I know that one time I was working with a client and website crashed. The order form wasn’t working, and, oh, I was s- I was just beside myself, and there was an emergency call to the Digital Navigator team to please help me out of this pickle that I was in. And so, you know, yes, I– that’s a boundary where I have to flex the boundaries because, you know, if it’s Saturday at 3:00 and we’re expecting sales that day and sales aren’t happening, then we all have to pitch in and be hands-on,
[00:31:22] Pol Cousineau: contingency plan, right? For, “Hey, what am I going to do in, in an emergency?” So when you’re in there, right, the thinking can get hectic, things are intense, there’s a lot of anxiety and stress, at least you know who to contact, right? Whether it’s internal, external, what do I do? So that’s really, really important if you’re listening now, and it doesn’t matter if you’re the founder or the implementer.
[00:31:48] ‘Cause if you’re the founder, you should check with your implementer, “Do we have any contingency plan if things go wrong?” On the other hand, if you’re the implementer, having that will make your life so much easier
[00:31:59] Lara Neiberding: Yes. Yes. And sometimes the founders are very go with the flow, and they will say, “Okay, we had this hiccup. So instead of panicking and doing things last minute, we’re going to take a step back, we’re going to regroup, and then we’re gonna implement the next plan. You know, we’ll, we’ll adjust accordingly.” And those are the really fun founders to work with because they recognize that technology happens. The more challenging personalities to work with are the ones who maybe are less tech-savvy, and so technical glitches are catastrophic, and the sky is falling, and we have to make a decision right now and act on it immediately. And that’s kind of where, you know, you’re like, “Okay, ex– you know, team members, admin support, VAs, okay, can we come together?” And as a operator confident in your position, you need to also be able to say to the founder, ” The order form didn’t work on Saturday at 3:00, but we came together, we fixed it. Now we need to make a decision this way.” Like, there are certain things that we just can’t plan for or accommodate, and so you have to be able, with boundaries, respect, rapport, say, “We are doing the best we can, but we need to regroup and make a different decision because what you intended isn’t going to happen, so we need to adjust expectations.”
[00:33:44] Pol Cousineau: Yeah, I’ve seen circumstances where everything was going to be a live on Facebook, and then there was an outage. Well, there’s not much we can do at that point, and even if you send the last minute email, you can try to get people on another platform, but you’re clearly not going to get everyone, right, in that context.
[00:34:03] And then there’s an immediate action that can be taken or not, and then after it’s like, okay, well, what are we going to do? Which again, could be an encore, another announcement, things like this. But it’s also understanding as the owner that this may not be as catastrophic as you believe. ‘Cause you might be thinking, “Oh, I just spent $25,000 on ads for this event and now there’s an outage.
[00:34:26] This event is not taking place. Not only did I lose that money, I lost all of the sales I was anticipating,” right? So the mind can go in pretty dark places, and this is where having someone like Lara or another person with experience is good to be like, “Okay, wait, what should we do in this situation?”
[00:34:45] Because you’ve seen a lot of this, right? So you can reassure, ” Okay, wait, we’ll make a strategy,” all of those things, and it’s to try to not let your mind go in these different areas. it’s interesting ’cause I’ve had people ask me too, “Hey, what do we do if you die?” And then I’m like, “Okay, don’t worry, I’m a planner.
[00:35:07] Here’s what’s gonna happen if I die.” Now, hopefully we don’t need to execute this plan.
[00:35:15] Lara Neiberding: Right
[00:35:18] Pol Cousineau: like the, the utter extreme, right, of all of the planning, and that’s why actually on both sides it’s good to have more than one person in your team. I see a lot of businesses that everything depends on one person, and it’s not even about dying. I’ve seen someone get hospitalized for a week, and no one could get access and do anything.
[00:35:39] Well, those are realities of life, so you don’t wanna have a single point of failure, or at a minimum you need to have a backup or a way of knowing where things are. So you mentioned the project management system earlier, and I think this is a good segue for that. Like, what does it look like, a well-working, organized pro- project management system?
[00:36:04] I’ve seen a lot of shapes to those. How would you organize it, or what are the advice you can give to our audience regarding that?
[00:36:13] Lara Neiberding: So I think you’re asking for my approach to how I set up a project management system.
[00:36:20] So I’m gonna get a little detailed because that– I’m not a visionary, so I go right to the, I go right to the details. And so I always like to have I wanna call them spaces. Mm, they could be folders depending
[00:36:43] Pol Cousineau: Like a bucket, right? There’s like different containers or a way to group things. Yeah
[00:36:48] Lara Neiberding: Yes, containers. Thank you. I got right to the details and, you know, went right to my terminology. So, I’m gonna think of Teamwork because that’s where I have the most experience. I’ve also worked in ClickUp and Asana, and the same principles apply to all of those. So, in Teamwork, well, and ClickUp, you’ll have spaces.
[00:37:09] So I have an admin space, then we have a marketing space, um, operations. So you’re looking at– You’re thinking as a founder, you’re thinking of your business and all of the things that need to get done. So, we will have a programs container, which would be like a space in ClickUp, and in that we will map out everything that needs to be done.
[00:37:36] So the individual programs are projects in a container where all of the programs exist. And what’s great about that is then we set up templates so that we know exactly what we need in it. For me, at the very basic thought of a template, it’s just a checklist. Everything that needs to get done so that the founder can say, “Do you remember that program we ran in August of two- 2025?
[00:38:10] Yes, I do remember that. I have the template for it. Let me duplicate that,” and everything is mapped out. Everything we did, what was successful, what wasn’t successful. So tasks are the actions that need to happen to make the program, to deliver the program, or to market the program. And then, um, you know, deadlines, team members. We have the steps to perform certain things, so
[00:38:38] Pol Cousineau: And a program here could be like selling a specific course or a membership or a retreat, but it would be like a, an initiative of some sort, right?
[00:38:47] Lara Neiberding: Yes, it could be a webinar, it could be… Sometimes they’re physical products, like we’re gonna launch a, a, work- the founder has a workbook that they wanna sell or give away. Like, that could be a project where you have design team, tech team, website, all of those things are in that project. So everything’s grouped together so that a founder can sign into that workspace and at a glance know exactly what’s happening and when.
[00:39:21] So we use calendars in the project management system so that we can see deadlines and where projects are. Um, so yeah, as an operator, I love all of those details. I wanna get in and I wanna figure out what needs to happen when, s- assign all the due dates, assign assignees so that somebody owns that work. And then that’s where review and testing happens because we know when things are done, and we can go in and say, “Okay, this has been reviewed, approved. We’re moving on to whatever’s next.” So I really enjoy the oversight a, a project management system provides. Um, you could just do so much with those things that… Technology has advanced a lot. So back in the day, we didn’t have Slack, and of course, Slack is notorious or, you know, very well known for being able to connect to your projects. So the founder can be in Slack and say, “Can we get this done by this date?” And boy, Slack will send it to Teamwork or ClickUp, and then you’ve got your task.
[00:40:29] And then as an operator, I’m overseeing, making sure the tasks are in the right location so everybody can find what they’re working on. Um, I’m trying to
[00:40:38] Pol Cousineau: And how do you control that flow of tasks? ‘Cause I see that that can become a challenge sometimes where things keep getting inserted in your system, now you have to reorganize the dates or there’s duplicates. How do you manage that?
[00:40:52] Lara Neiberding: So in the project management system for incoming general, it goes to one location. So it might be ideas or we might call the project Slack, and then I’ll go through and sift it and organize it because you still need a human eye on it because of the pivots, because of the preferences of the founder, the These platforms don’t understand nuances,
[00:41:24] so
[00:41:25] Pol Cousineau: And there’s dependencies sometimes that it may not realize, so there’s like a holding area that allows you to see that. So on our end, we have something similar, and we also create a lot of tasks directly in Slack, and then we have a channel for new tasks, and then people can request things, including the owner.
[00:41:45] Now in this case, that would be me, and then I can request things and other people in the team. But then there’s a person whose role it is to either translate that in an actual task in the system, or now we’ve connected it and then it creates something automatically in ClickUp, but it goes in that holding space, and then the person can review and then check them off in that Slack channel to make sure that it meets the requirements.
[00:42:09] Or now we’ve connected it to an AI platform, so then the AI can create it either in Slack or in the AI platform, and then what we have is we’re using a tag on the task that says that the AI tool was added, and there’s a thing that says if a human checked it or not. So that way we can identify it, and because this is relatively new, the person that’s like the dispatcher or organizing it knows to be especially careful when they see those AI tags.
[00:42:41] I think it was about three weeks ago, I created something that was somewhere between 70 and 100 tasks fully sequenced over two months through the AI, right? And I had like my whole document, everything, but then I clearly told my project manager, ” Please review this carefully with a human eye. Now, I have analyzed the task and the content and the dates, but nonetheless, once it got pushed into ClickUp, I didn’t go back to cross-compare that around my document, and this is two months.
[00:43:11] You may disagree with some of these timings. You own this, and just tell me if the plan needs to change, and I’ll go along with that,” right? And then I’ve entrusted that person. But that, that’s kind of like that holding space that you described
[00:43:26] Lara Neiberding: Yes. I have to say that, um, I was very envious of The Digital Navigator’s workflow for handling, um, our tickets and the way… It was so smooth. I loved the way Digital Navigator had it all set up from my request to follow through, questions I had. Everything was just so smooth that at one point I think I said to you, “Oh my goodness, I, I wanna learn how to do that.
[00:43:59] I want my clients to have The Digital Navigator method of handling these things,” because it was just beautiful and smooth. And I’ve gotten close to what you have, and so, you know, clients really appreciate that because I’m focused on that project management side of it. And of course, I pair with people who wanna be the front person, the people person. They don’t wanna know about the back end stuff. And so I’ve gotten close to what you have with some of my projects.
[00:44:29] Pol Cousineau: Yeah. The last thing I would say on that topic is also having a clear objective or goal for the tasks. I was shocked. I was reviewing a system recently. None of the tasks describe what was the desired outcome. Everything was, like, weirdly written, like, uh, like sentences and things like this. But I said, “But we can’t at a glance understand what is required and what does success look like.”
[00:44:56] And when you stack all of those tasks, the mental bandwidth for the team… And then that person told me, “This is a problem with the team. This is not an IT problem. This is not a project management problem. They’re just not putting the effort in the doing it.” And I said, “I fully disagree. The mental bandwidth you’re requiring from your team is not…
[00:45:17] Y- y- it is astronomical. This is not reasonable.” I said, “I fully disagree with that.” Uh, so that, so that is something as well, is like when you’re putting things in the system, make sure that the ideal outcome, you know, i- is there. So I know we’ve been talk…
[00:45:36] Lara Neiberding: Oh,
[00:45:37] sorry. I I always like who put a team member as a task, “Ask client for X.” And I’m like, “Uh, okay, that’s a mental reminder for you, but, like, we need more details about when does that occur? Why are you asking for that?” Like, you know, like, ” Ask client for handout.” Which handout? There might be 10 handouts for a program, or there might just be six handouts for one lesson in the program.
[00:46:07] So, “Ask client for handout.” Um, wait a minute. Like, you know, let, let’s get a little bit more than just your mental note to do things.
[00:46:16] Pol Cousineau: Right. And then otherwise too, there can be confusion, right? And the ran- the wrong handout is picked, it adds a bunch of other things, and there might be versioning as well, right? I’m sure that you see multiple versions of handouts, of course recording classes, e- e- et cetera. And then you said, “No, not version 2.4, I made a new one yesterday.”
[00:46:36] You did? So, uh, I don’t know, like, if you’ve seen a lot of course structures or even membership structures, but, like, how people are actually shaping their programs, and I’d be interested if you could share a bit your experience i- if you’ve seen, right, how those are built or how people are structuring it.
[00:47:03] What’s been your experience around, like, these, like, courses, summits, et cetera?
[00:47:07] Lara Neiberding: the clients that I work with like to offer a live training. And so they want their students, the people who purchase their programs, to show up for a call, and then we have a recording and it goes into a member center. So, um, we have it set up where a lesson will be the recording of the call and then a handout, um And let me see what else.
[00:47:41] Uh, so there’s a video that gets uploaded, an audio that gets uploaded, uh, the option to download, and then video player options are on there as well. Um, some clients liked to use YouTube for their– like, they would put their courses on YouTube and then put the YouTube link in the membership. But what happens with that is it’s a little bit distracting because YouTube will show ads or, like, here’s the next video.
[00:48:10] Like, people could get distracted and taken off of the site if we do that, which is fine. I don’t have anything against that. But to keep people focused on the call, we generally take the audio and video. So you wanna have audio and video player options in your membership center so that they can speed up, pause, all of that. And you wanna make sure that if you allow it, you wanna give them the option to download it.
[00:48:36] Downloading it allows them to have a backup so that if something happens to the membership center, you know, especially if you’ve promised them lifetime access. Some clients have not offered lifetime access, and they close the program, in which case we don’t allow downloading. Um, transcripts go in a program lesson as well. And so all of the lessons for the program are in that one container.
[00:49:01] And then some clients have offered it live. The people who are in the program get access to those recordings right away, and they paid probably a higher price because they’re getting the interaction with the founder. And then later on, maybe the founder’s gonna offer that program again. It could be the exact same program, or it could be a slightly revised, updated program.
[00:49:29] The old program can then be sold or used for marketing purposes, in which case we reduce the price a little bit and they get… a student will get access to all the recordings, and they can go through at their own time. Um, I’ve also set it up where students get access, and then, um, the lessons are dripped. So some people get access to everything right away, and some clients prefer, okay, week one, this content gets released so that the student will come to the membership, open it up, go to that lesson, and do that thing, whatever that week’s module is. And then the founder might offer question and answer, ask me anything sessions throughout the program so that people who are pacing themselves.
[00:50:21] That works really well when a lot of Your students are worldwide, so being very restrictive and asking people to attend a live call, and that’s the only way they’re gonna get their information, is a little restrictive for people in different time zones or different learning abilities. And so having them be able to access on their own time is preferred even by founders. So we do a lot of making sure content’s available so that the person gets what they paid for. Um, so we’ve done quizzes, um, issued certificates. I love the platforms that do that for us automatically, just issue the certificate when they’ve completed whatever we’ve asked for.
[00:51:09] Like, you could set the program platform to, okay, these lessons have to be marked complete, and then they get their certificate. Um, a lot of the founders that I’ve worked with, their programs are accredited by the International Coaching Foundation, the ICF, and you have to prove hours or receipt, give a receipt for the hours that that person participated in that program.
[00:51:37] So we, we do accommodate those things. So those are the types of, um, platforms that I’ve helped set up, maintain, make sure students have access to, make sure proper tags are tagging and doing the things they need to do. And there’s a lot of, um… That’s where you use your project management tool to make sure, okay, this person purchased this.
[00:52:02] Did they get access to it? You know, you have all your checks and balances in the teamwork, and then you go into the project, the, uh, program management, learning management system, the LMS, and make sure it’s all smooth and running and all the good things.
[00:52:17] Pol Cousineau: Yeah, I’m seeing a lot of hybrid right now where they do the live call, like you mentioned. Most give the replay. Now, some of them, the live calls are more for practice sessions. In that context, they generally don’t give the replay because it’s a student practicing, or they might even go in breakout rooms, et cetera.
[00:52:34] And then those practice sessions, if it’s a large cohort, they pick times where it can support different time zones when they have a international audience. And then the hybrid part is there’s some pre-recorded content with handouts and lessons, and that stays as part of the core curriculum, and then they’re giving that experience.
[00:52:53] And what I found is that with the live component, you can normally price your course or program higher than if everything was pre-recorded. Now, you might say, “Well, I’m still seeing the same thing,” but the perceived quality is different, and it’s difficult for people to follow through with what they wanted.
[00:53:14] I mean, you can take a look at yourself and your own life. There’s probably things you’ve wanted to do and then… or you started, and you didn’t follow through with it. The live component usually helps people stay engaged and reach their goal of actually completing the program.
[00:53:30] You were mentioning tags a moment ago, Lara, and that is still the, one of the most common approach for giving accesses, which is a tag in the CRM, right? And then that’s mapped to whatever accesses.
[00:53:44] I don’t know if you m- are okay sharing a little bit more about, like, what a tag system looks like. Not a lot, you know, we don’t have to go all the tags, but what does that look like for accesses and things like that? ‘Cause some people may not have any idea what we’re talking about now.
[00:54:01] ​
[00:54:03] Pol Cousineau: One of the things
[00:54:04] that I’m observing
[00:54:05] is the need
[00:54:06] for an orchestrator.
[00:54:07] Lara Neiberding: this year,
[00:54:09] I was let go
[00:54:10] from that position
[00:54:11] because AI does it all now.
[00:54:13] Pol Cousineau: And there is
[00:54:14] a real cost
[00:54:15] of making them
[00:54:16] constantly analyze
[00:54:17] what is going on
[00:54:18] that’s not moving the needle.
[00:54:20] Lara Neiberding: the founder gets invited
[00:54:22] to a speaker summit,
[00:54:24] and they wanna do
[00:54:25] a free giveaway.
[00:54:26] They wanna participate
[00:54:27] in the summit.
[00:54:28] Pol Cousineau: visionary, right?
[00:54:28] There’s a reason
[00:54:29] why they’re the visionary.
[00:54:30] Lara Neiberding: It’s just that magic aura
[00:54:32] that happens
[00:54:32] when a business founder
[00:54:34] is excited about something.
[00:54:35] it just all seems…
[00:54:36] and that’s where
[00:54:37] proper planning comes.
[00:54:38]